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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 11:54 AMNope,
just trying to find out of meanings are attachments.
I think they are if you leave them concrete and unconvertable.
What do you think? -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:03 PMI think meanings are not attachments, unless you are attached to the meaning you give something.
Know what I mean?
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:05 PMThere are delusions of intellectually formed conception, and delusions of karmic imprints. The former arise in dependence to our nurture, and the latter from the nature of the conventional reality we inhabit. Clinging to either - as inherently existant from their own side - is the primary obstruction(s) to enlightenment. In other words; all things arise to mind as merely names and imputation. Therefore, their only inherent meaning comes from within the mind. What is it you are clinging to?
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:07 PMI would say meaning is an interpretation of reality, therefore an attachment. The question is: is it a hindrance?
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:28 PM"In linguistics, meaning is the content carried by the words or signs exchanged by people when communicating through language. Restated, the communication of meaning is the purpose and function of language. A communicated meaning will (more or less accurately) replicate between individuals either a direct perception or some sentient derivation thereof. Meanings may take many forms, such as evoking a certain idea, or denoting a certain real-world entity." -- Wikipedia entry for "Meaning (Linguistics)"
Is this what you mean?
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:28 PMThe word "meaning" has lost most of its meaning.
This is especially the case for questions like "what is the meaning of life?"
Instead of "meaning" use "point" instead: "what is the point of life?"
The point of life is to live. However, the point of life is not "just" to live - but to live well.
Question: "what is living well?"
See how much better of a question that is? -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:39 PMAh, you mean "meaning" as in "aim, purpose, or end."
The end of life is death. Therefore:
The meaning of life is to die. -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:58 PMwell...
birth and death frame life...
such that from birth as point a to death as point b is life...
so in a one way linear sense the direction/destination of life is death...
that wouldn't be it's "meaning" though would it...?
is the meaning of a journey it's destination...?
and then there are other annoying parameters like what does it mean to whom etc...
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 1:45 PMorpheus: "birth and death frame life... so in a one way linear sense the direction/destination of life is death... "
This is Buddhism tribe silly! Therefore, not a frame, but a wheel; life, death, rebirth, rinse, repeat...until you liberate yourself (and all living beings should you decide to undertake that mission) from Samasara.
downloads.wisdompubs.org/websi...fe.jpg
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 1:48 PMI caution you however, King Bimbasara is said to have had a direct realization of emptiness - and thus liberation - merely from gazing at this picture!
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 1:58 PMwell the one way linear model if you choose to put that spin on it is potentially circular and recycled like a snake biting it's own ass so to speak...
or perhaps a spiral like a CD waiting for god to finish burning it before archiving it in the labyrinthine landfill library of losers...
of course we sophisticated multimedia beings am beyond linear and into chaos quantum hyperlinking...
the launderette model is kinda cool like you are dirty pants that get washed and then dried and then soiled until the fabric gives out...
but what does it mean...?
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:07 PM
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 1:13 PMGiving meaning, significance beyond a loss of the physical life force, to death, ....... is Attachment to Death.This is, perhaps among the biggest of stumbling blocks.
There is the possibility (though impossible without steadfast, earnest, and correct effort) of translating the physical vessel into a light body, and ascending it into spirit.
The assertion that everyone always dies, is therefore not completely truthful, in that a scant few of us manage to become ascended masters..... who may subsequently reincarnate and die again, true enough..... yet the ability to conquer death is something a few of us have cultivated... even if we may allow ourselves to undergo suffering and death for the sake of furthering our learning and contributing to the awakening of humanity from its dire ignorances. -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:10 PMeveryone has seemed to have seperated "In Meaning" life and death..Death should be called transformation. or transition...No one dies per se and also the idea of reincarnation seems to be believed by most to be linear and as we know life is not linear per se and there can be alternative Universes..all lives lived past and present can be taking place at the same "time" write? There is a famous saying ,I forgot who said it but here it is "to label me is to negate me" thus to label something is to somehow negate it in it's full meaning.
Thus the Zen..what is the sound of one hand clapping or what does a bowl of empty rice taste like.Time is imaginary and therefore part of the great illusion no? -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:22 PMOd wrote:
Ah, you mean "meaning" as in "aim, purpose, or end."
The end of life is death. Therefore:
The meaning of life is to die.
+++
I hope it doesn't interupt the thread to give Od props...that line really gave me a serious belly laugh. And since my big fat hippie belly is a large mountain to move...that is a pretty serious comedic accomplishment....
++++
as far as original question.
I think meaning or purpose in life is a spiritual thing. I think attachment by nature is not a spiritual thing. I don't think you can really have an attachment to a spiritual thing...I think you either have the spiritual vibe or the attachment, but not both at the same time. I don't see how that is possible. Of course, I could be wrong.
I mean, I guess one could have a spiritual vibe and then slip out of it and into some kind of attachment or obsession or possessiveness about it...but I think when you feel spiritual purpose, it is like oil and water, the light drives out the ignorance...
There is some great quote by Caryle or something....something like let man have some noble work, he needs no other blessedness.
I have felt that. Not necessarily in some kind of big or grand or glorious way...just having some good duty to perform that is honorable...that just seems to drive away all the bs in life - even just good old menial labor...physically working hard moving furniture or whatever. Just makes you feel alive and worthwhile. I think so, anyway.
hope you are all doing good
peace
Jon -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:31 PMThanks, Jon.
Now for the Secret of Life: We are the most beautiful machines ever.
www.kugelbahn.ch/sesam_e.htm
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 6:59 AM>> Od: Ah, you mean "meaning" as in "aim, purpose, or end."
The end of life is death. <<
When "end" is used with the meaning of "aim, purpose or meaning" it does not mean simply "final result". It means "desired result".
So when used in this sense the end of life is happiness. One does not strive for one's own death - which comes on it's own. Rather one strives (as in right effort) to live well right now - and living well is the only way to achieve true happiness. -
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 9:31 AM>> orpheus: define living well... <<
rent the dvd "meaning of life" by monty python - skip to the end. it's all there. -
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 9:36 AMBut if you want the full treatment then try this crash course in Eudaimonism:
What Is Ancient Philosophy? by Pierre Hadot
The Morality of Happiness by Julia Annas
Plato volume 1 by R.E. Allen
The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius
The Discourses of Epicetetus
De Finibus by Cicero
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 9:39 AMso once I've added that particular selection to my bibliography then what...? -
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 11:29 AM>> orpheus: so once I've added that particular selection to my bibliography then what...? <<
If you were interested in going to Italy, but first you read some guidebooks about Italy - what would you do after that?
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 10:11 AMI think I would recommend the Epicureans over the Stoics when it comes to classical teachings on happiness. -
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 10:39 AM -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 11:13 AM>> orpheus: so living well is about reading stuff...? <<
This is the information age, orpheus - get with the program.
"To read well is to master the ages."
[ Bene legere saecla vincere ]
"One who lives well, lives unnoticed."
[ Bene qui latuit, bene vixit ]
Caveat Lector. -
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 11:22 AMare you like italian or catholic or something...? -
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Re: Meaning
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 11:57 AM>> are you like italian or catholic or something...? <<
All of the sources were Pagans of various nationalities.
Epictetus was Phrygian. Aurelius and Lucretius were Roman. Zeno, Cleanthes and Chrysippus were all Greeks. Diogenes Laertius was probably from Asia Minor.
Just FYI. -
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Re: Meaning
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 12:16 PMA video response by Natalie Merchant and David Byrne:
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 11:22 AM>> I think I would recommend the Epicureans over the Stoics when it comes to classical teachings on happiness. <<
Little remains from either school in terms of complete, intact works. So, in my opinion, it is probably best to read "everything":
The fragments of Epicurus, Zeno, Cleanthes, Chrysippus (see A.A. Long's "Hellenistic Philosophy")
Complete works:
De Rerum Natura by Lucretius
The Meditations of Aurelius
The Discourses of Epictetus
The Lives of the Philosophers by Diogenes (Epicurus gets by far the longest treatment - indicating that the author was an Epicurean)
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 11:32 AMI think the pedicureans might have a fair contribution to happiness as well... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 11:41 AMyeah the foot fetish cults were probably the smartest of the greek cliques...
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 12:13 PM
Yes, those Ancient Greeks really knew how to separate the men from the boys...
...with a crowbar. -
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 1:14 PM
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Re: Meaning
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 7:45 AM>>the end of life is happiness<<
Ah, therefore, death is happiness...
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:32 PMIt may point to subtle attachment, but may not be attachment itself.
Meaning is just conceptionalizing...which is not really attachments unless you are attached to your concepts.
But to wonder about, find, or give meaning in something means there is subtle preference...a very subtle attachment to that thing. Otherwise, there would be no reason to think about meaning. It is as it is...what is the point of looking for meaning?
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen
www.awaken2life.org
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 3:05 PMAnything which can be conceptualized can become an attachment so this includes meaning, which is a concept. -
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Re: Meaning
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 3:35 PMWhat about definition?
The left brain labels something,
and the right brain says yeah but it's a part of EVERYTHING (which includes nothing)
I think a definition would be an attachment if one decided that the beer bottle is just a beer bottle,
regardless of cellular vibration, which when you dig a little bit deeper, remains a mystery.
So the beer bottle is a beer bottle, but microcosmically it's reflecting the belly of a mystery, just like everything else.
It's like leading circuits to the abyss,
rather than keeping them on a closed-circuit with dead-ends.
But then the abyss has been labeled
and is attached to the ends of the circuits.
ha.........
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