NBC has a special email address just for "feedback" concerning their Olympics coverage:
nbcolympicsfeedback@nbcuni.com
Here is what I sent them - with the subject heading "Tibet":
Tibet has been brutally occupied by China since 1950. I don't see how NBC can justify making millions of dollars covering the 2008 Summer Olympics while China's oppression of the Tibetan people not only continues - but increases in it's savagery. I plan to not only completely boycott all NBC programming - but also any and all Olympic sponsors, including especially sponsors of NBC's Olympics coverage.
nbcolympicsfeedback@nbcuni.com
Here is what I sent them - with the subject heading "Tibet":
Tibet has been brutally occupied by China since 1950. I don't see how NBC can justify making millions of dollars covering the 2008 Summer Olympics while China's oppression of the Tibetan people not only continues - but increases in it's savagery. I plan to not only completely boycott all NBC programming - but also any and all Olympic sponsors, including especially sponsors of NBC's Olympics coverage.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 9:09 AMyou know, I do understand boycotts and the pressures that they produce. I participated in various boycotts...including the Caesar Chavez things and others.
I am always conflicted about this as regards the Olympics. The Olympics itself is an event for peace...and has been since ancient Greece. They would declare a respite from hostilities during that time.
My concern is this....that it just sets two kinds of peaceful manifestations against each other.
For example, I used to run a local Amnesty International Group. At almost every single event we ran, the Socialist Workers Party or some such group would come by and try to co-op our talk and our event to their agenda. Not that I am against economic reform or something, I am not. It is just that, you know, you can't accomplish every goal at once. Here we were, talking to a basically mainstream crowd, about the horrors of some human rights abuse...and some very extreme political revolutionaries would come into the Barnes and Noble or whatever and shout about this, that or the other thing. I mean, you know, if everything is just a sea of shouting, nothing gets accomplished....for anyone.
The Olympics itself brings the world community together in harmony over sports. I think that itself is a very very powerful force. How often does the world community get together? And regularly? I really think that the OIympics remains the single largest, continual meeting of the minds of the world community. I can't stress how important I think that is.
I honestly do not know which is the best path...whether to use the Olympics to press for the human rights progress or not. I truly don't know. But I think that this other side of the argument is important.
China is a developing country in many respects. I think it has made huge progress in many areas. I think it still has a long way to go.
Which is the better route, to welcome them into the world community through sharing cultural exchanges, like the Olympics, or to pressure them for change? I don't know. I would guess that some of both is necessary. I just hope that one does not co-opt and ruin the other.
You know if you try to beat someone over the head to change, it is not necessarily the best course of action. Perhaps in some instances that kind of pressure is necessary. I just hope that the outrage over the abuses do not usurp some kind of reflection about what is the best methodology for change. You know, China has nukes. The US has nukes. It is very important that our two countries come together diplomatically and culturally, to preserve that kind of international peace and harmony.
China is filled with abuses....horrible lack of environmental controls....poor management in many areas, causing hordes of suffering across the board. There also seem to be some very good hearted people in their government, truly trying to make good progress towards limiting the real sufferings of their own people. I am just concerned that if the world pressure against China is so strong and vocal, that their response will be the opposite of reform...that they will withdraw from the international scene and wall themselves off more. That happened before, when the student movement gained international support. China had been allowing much of it to occur. But when the world community stepped in and railed against them...they just walled off even more. It had the opposite effect of reform. It was reforming, slowly - and the cries for change, made it stop and change direction!
You know, it is like this...if you are dealing with an alcoholic and you can convince the person to take a few less drinks....that may be the best you can do. Then, later, you have the opportunity to try and work for even more reform. If you try and pressure the alcoholic into going "cold turkey" - you may just cause a rebellion and drive him deeper into darkness. I think the activists do need to consider the larger picture and how that plays out. We do want and need China to be part of the international community and in a climate in which they do not feel like they are being "chided" like a disobedient child.
Like, I said, I don't know what is best. I don't.
I wish the best for the Tibetan people being horribly abused. I wish the best for continuing international harmony between China and the world community. I hope that progress can be made in both areas.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 9:16 AMJon, I appreciate the way you examined both sides of the issue. It provides an entry point for each person to find what's in their heart and take action appropriate for their self. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 1:03 PMI agree. Thanks for the post Jon. It's too easy to let ourselves become overwhelmed with emotion when we see a terrible thing happen. Your post helped me to restore some amount of balance over what's going on.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 9:27 AMPersonally I think this is no time for prevarication. Tibet is being subjected to cultural genocide. That how the Dalai Lama describes it.
There are NOT two sides to everything - unless you are standing comfortably on the sidelines. This is the type of neurotic navel-gazing that gives Buddhism a bad name. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 7:05 PMThe Dalai Lama should be ashamed of himself for politicizing the Olympics - simply a cheap shot. It's interesting to see how notoriety can change a person. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 9:00 PMCharles, HHDL has not politicized the Olympics, the Chinese have in their baseless accusations. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Wed, March 26, 2008 - 9:34 PMMichael, at least from what I've seen on TV, the Tibetans are using the Olympics as a way of exacerbating a sorry situation and in the process - embarrassing the Chinese while drumming up a call for a boycott. And HHDL, again from what I've seen on TV, is playing right along with it.
I've experienced first hand the plight of the Tibetans, and sympathize with their cause.
Using the Olympics as a political football to me seems counterproductive and ridiculous. It offers one of the few opportunities on a global scale to take a time out and let the kids play regardless of their nationalities and beliefs. The Olympics levels the playing field for everyone involved. It's an opportunity for the the participants to express what many of them have worked for for most of their lives, and it's an opportunity for them to see each other as people, not political foes. It also, in this case, offers an opportunity to shed more light on China, and the Chinese to get a better glimpse of the rest of the world - more so than anything I can remember. I can only see it as having a positive influence. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:54 AMCharles: "at least from what I've seen on TV..."
I see. I don't own a TV, and prefer to get my news from outside the country, and from primary sources when possible. If you watch how the story has unfolded, it is clear that the Chinese soldiers started this rumor among non-participants in the protests in Lhasa and that it has become the official stance of the Chinese govternment who claim to have 'facts' and 'irrefutable evidence', yet have not come forth with either. HHDL on the other hand has sent a clear and consistent message that a) he does not condone the violence, b) he will step down if it continues, and c) he is in full support of the summer Olympics in Beijing. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:46 AM>> HHDL on the other hand has sent a clear and consistent message that a) he does not condone the violence, b) he will step down if it continues, and c) he is in full support of the summer Olympics in Beijing. <<
HHDL is only one person - obviously a great many Tibetans disagree with some of his ideas and approaches.
And let's get real about "condoning" violence. The Tibetans would much prefer for the Chinese to just leave peacefully of their own free will. But that is not going to happen. Throughout the long history of Buddhism in Asia, Buddhist have always defended themselves against aggression from their neighbors. There is absolutely no principle in Buddhism that requires everyone to just sit there smiling while someone comes and takes over your country and sets about destroying your culture. The Tibetans are fighting for their freedom - that is a good thing. It should not only be "condoned" but praised and emulated.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 1:53 AMWell, Jon, you know sometimes you have this ability to send people back to the drawing board! *chuckle* ;-)
You really got me interested there the way you said that Olympics, in its original form, was/is a symbol of peace. I had to go back and re-confirm that, in reality, it was a sacrificial ritual, with some games thrown into in for the amusement of the 'crowed' gathered from around the known world of Greece at that time - around 300 BB (before Buddha ;-). A rather nasty reference concerning Peloponnesus says that Olympics were "the funeral sacrifices of Pelops."
That was the past, with religious motifs.
With time, the event underwent transformation with respect to its socio-econo-political purposes and requirements. When there were thoughts of reviving the Olympics (the modern form of the game) in early part of 19 hundreds, it had a very strong political motif. (another hint - during that era, the call for the games by the Nazi regime for the sake of showing their political and military might that might sound a warning to the opposition for avoiding confrontation).
In the current era, I suppose it is mainly economics. And sports is a huge business. With all due respect to its international 'community spirit' and all that, Olympics is after all an economic event of the largest scale in sports today - requires a huge investment, but brings in a mountain worth of foreign exchange within a very short run of about a month.
China has a lot at stake, for, along with it's investor 'friends', it has infused billions into infrastructure development in/around Beijing to host this event. China's business plans in terms of first breaking even, expand infrastructure at the cost of tourists' money and hyper-consume it's own products in the process, and than make billions in profit, had not accounted for Tibet. Or at least that is what it seems now. And I suppose that is where China is at its most vulnerable (numbers are not released by China; for London 2012 the budget is £9B = ~USD18b). Threats to Beijing Olympics were first proclaimed by China, and not the Dalai Lama, let alone those Tibetans who were/are rather too busy fighting for their own survival. One of the reasons why China had to sound the bugle could be for all those US/EU investors to help cover the grounds. It is supposed to be a very effective strategy if executed properly - let those 'western' investors resist anti-Olympics (i.e. anti-Chinese) propaganda in their respective home-land for the sake of their own invested money.
I am not sure, Charles, which TV you are talking about. For what I have been watching the popular 'TV' has never mentioned anything for which "The Dalai Lama should be ashamed of himself..." I happened to listen to a journalist friend over the weekend who was one of the last 'western' media persons in Lhasa before they were forcefully evicted. And that was the first-hand account of what their 'western' employers didn't allow them to publish - the interiors of Tibetan autonomous province where military tanks are running over Tibetan homes. Absolute madness.
If someone were a Tibetan outside of China, on a 'democratic' land, and you came to know of your own, ancestor's or cousin's homes being bulldozed, in hundreds-of-thousands, would you take to the streets? Would you chuck away Olympics that apparently is going to benefit the economy of the aggressor?
For the sake of an argument now, if I do reverse the case stating that it was indeed the Tibetan people who saw an opportunity of an uprising in opposing the Beijing Olympics of games and celebrations, would that be justifiable considering Tibetan blood that is being poured to the land since the Red-revolution?
Sorry for a rather long post.
In your opinion, what is/should be the 'middle' way? -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 2:51 AMMil, it appears I definitely made an error. I heard several segments on TV about the Dalai Lama instigating unrest, but after Googling it and checking out numerous articles, these were all claims made by China, and in actuality HHDL is pushing for the games to go on.
Beijing is a geographical location where a bunch of athletes will compete with one another. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference what the Games original intents were - sacrifice or not. I think of what it is now. If you want to see it as an extension of sacrifice then go right ahead. I look upon it as an opportunity for the participants and all those who are able to watch them that want to. And yes, economics is involved - because a large percentage of the world wants to see exactly what's going on. That's pretty much how it works - isn't it. You have a good venue and you exploit it - just like forking over your $10 to go to the movies, or paying money to hear some music after paying for a nice dinner. They have something and you're willing to pay for it. You want Windows or a Mac and you fork out money, and people are making a profit all the way down the line. Apparently you have one of these gadgets in front of you right now, so you put a few bucks in someone's pocket. You might even use it to see highlights of the Olympics.
You could use your logic by saying that because in many people's eyes we're fighting an unjust war abroad that all the other countries of the world should boycott the Olympics here in the States; it makes about as much sense. Or maybe the US athletes should be barred this year. And I guess we could kick off the teams from a few African countries. And nix N Korea for screwing around with nukes. And Japan for killing some whales. Before long there won't be any teams going, which seems to defeat the whole purpose of what the games are intended for - at least in this age. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 4:40 AM -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 4:54 AM
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 5:59 AMRecently, after a couple of pints, <peep> coughed out: those commie <peep> have to be stuffed by their <peep>... but I love sports, and this is <peep> Olympics..! Tell those Tibetans to go elsewhere and settle their score...
For this, <peep> got kicked on his <peep>, and had to pay for everyone's rounds that evening.
Please, Charles, Beijing is not just a geographic location where a bunch of half-naked half-drunk jobless jokers would try to top a crossbar. The discussion involves Olympics and I suppose I already mentioned the money and stakes involved. Yes, sure It is - buy and sell, but for an event such as this, as with all major economic campaigns of the time, it is but you buy what I sell. And for that I would ensure that you would 'want' to buy what I sell. One of the large pies of this is the broadcast rights. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 6:23 AM -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 6:32 AM
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:58 AMCharles: "it appears I definitely made an error...after Googling it and checking out numerous articles, these were all claims made by China, and in actuality HHDL is pushing for the games to go on."
Thank you, you are a gentleman and a scholar. If anyone should boycott the Olympics it is the athletes themselves. Not because of human rights violations, but because the air quality in Beijing poses a serious risk to their health! -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 10:37 AMMichael, agree with you on all counts. I saw some recent footage on the air quality there. It's amazing the location got approved. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 12:01 PMYes, Charles, thank you for that decent uptake.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 7:33 AMA question to people who are seeking a "balanced" approach to the current situation in Tibet: do you take the same approach to the Nazi Holocaust? Are you interested in making sure that you understand the Nazi point of view? I'm just curious where you people draw the line. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 7:50 AMgeez, Cornel...I actually ran a local Amnesty International group and have been an activist for over 30 years.
thanks for comparing me to the Nazis...
have you ever gotten arrested in a protest???...I have
Have you ever sat with an ex-con, begging him not to commit a murder?
Have you ever stopped someone from killing their child?
When you have thirty years of experience in saving people's lives...then you can come back to me and tell me what is what.
You know nothing about me and are jumping to huge conclusions about what I am suggesting.
I am suggesting reflection on the problem. That is all.
the Olympics itself functions as a world peace movement.
Why use the Olympics? Merely because it is a public forum?
I don't care about the "Nazi" point of view. The Chinese government is muy loco
that is not the question
the question is how to get them to change
and how long you want to get them to change...
do you want to just piss them off more so you can feel better that you did something?
do you remember the student movement? do you remember how China wall itself off...the last time the world community pressured it?
do facts matter?
So, the last time that the world community railed against China, they went more repressive, not less repressive.
And, so, you want to do the same thing again? Why? So you will feel you did something...and to heck with the 1 billion people whose lives will get worse???
Tell me, what is the political dynamic functioning within the Chinese government that will make them respond differently now...then they did back in the late 80's and 90's???
So, worldwide, 100 million people will scream. And, if China decides to just murder 1000 people to tell the entire world to go f*ck itself..that is ok with you? I mean, who cares, they are only numbers, right?
Action is not enough...it has to be right action. The right action at the right time.
What is that action? I do not know!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But the question needs to be explored.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:14 AM>> thanks for comparing me to the Nazis... <<
Many people have compared the Chinese treatment of Tibet and Tibetans to the Germans' treatment of the Jews. It is true that so far Tibetans are not being killed on anything like the scale of the Holocaust. Are you applying some quantitative measure of evil here - to distinguish the two cases?
>> When you have thirty years of experience in saving people's lives...then you can come back to me and tell me what is what. <<
I prefer to say what I have to say right now. You do seem to have an exaggerated conception of your own moral superiority. Most people do - but it is usually best to keep this to oneself. Just to avoid embarrassment, if nothing else.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:47 AM>> do you want to just piss them off more so you can feel better that you did something?
>> So, the last time that the world community railed against China, they went more repressive, not less repressive.
These are very important points. Since this is a Buddhism tribe I think it's proper to point out that the suffering the Tibetan people are experiencing is being caused by their own karma. It is a terrible thing that they suffer, but an angry response will not end their suffering. It will continue until it is transformed through compassion. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:38 AM>> Since this is a Buddhism tribe I think it's proper to point out that the suffering the Tibetan people are experiencing is being caused by their own karma. <<
Since this is a Buddhism tribe I feel compelled to point out that you are full of shit. -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:46 AMgeez, can we lighten up on the f**king hatred here or what???
tooling into people left and right...I guarantee ya, this is not what the Dalai Lama wants for people.... -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 11:59 AMCool it guys... A round for all from me: www.coolpicking.com/50226711...dlier.jpg
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 12:17 PM>> tooling into people left and right...I guarantee ya, this is not what the Dalai Lama wants for people.... <<
When a thread on Tibet is met with calls for people to try to understand the Chinese point of view and crap like that I see no reason to be polite about responding.
And when some moron says that the brutal occupation of Tibet is the fault of the Tibetans - and then tries to pass that off as "buddhist teaching" - that also calls for an impolite response, in my opinion.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 12:57 PMwhen people act ignorantly, isn't it then that courtesy is most important?
in Buddhism, under right speech and right action, I don't think we are given the freedom to verbally "assault" other people.
Not that I haven't done it too, I certainly have. I just think that we do have to try to find another way, right?
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 1:26 PMI'm very sorry. I made my point poorly. I really, really want the Chinese to leave the Tibetans alone. The point that I was trying to make was that retaliation isn't going to help things. But I'm not really sure what will help things. So I'll shut up now.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 4:59 PMCo: I feel compelled to point out
Don't.
Explain his obvious misuse of karma but keep the rest to yourself.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 8:45 AMthe line I draw is an index linked exponential spiral of infinitely escalating inflationary samsara...
you see if you draw a line in shit - anywhere you draw it - there is shit on both sides... -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 5:00 PMor: you see if you draw a line in shit - anywhere you draw it - there is shit on both sides...
exactly.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 8:15 AMIsn't the Chinese government's treatment of Tibetans essentially similar to the U.S. government's treatment of Native Americans? If you don't think so, you need to be better informed. If you do think so, why haven't you boycotted the Olympics for as long as the U.S. has been involved? -
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:00 AM>> Isn't the Chinese government's treatment of Tibetans essentially similar to the U.S. government's treatment of Native Americans? If you don't think so, you need to be better informed. If you do think so, why haven't you boycotted the Olympics for as long as the U.S. has been involved? <<
Please note that the topic of this thread is about boycotting NBC and other corporations that profit from the Olympic Games. Probably it's a good idea for athletes, journalists and others to participate in the Olympic Games themselves, precisely because it provides a good opportunity to publicly expose the ongoing occupation of Tibet. A prominent Green Party leader in Europe has called for people to go to Beijing and cause "mayhem" throughout the Olympics. That sounds a lot more fun than just a boycott!
A separate issue is a boycott of the opening ceremony - which would send a very powerful message but would not in any way interfere with the actual Games. Another proposal has been for people visiting Beijing for the Olympics to make a special point of going to Tienanmen Square.
Also - all during the run-up to the Olympics there will be innumerable public events - such as all the hoopla surrounding the Olympic Torch. These will also provide a means for making more people aware of what is going on in Tibet - and also for showing solidarity with the Tibetan Freedom Struggle in general.
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Re: Boycott NBC and all Olympics sponsors
Thu, March 27, 2008 - 9:01 AMIf you swap China for the US, sure, it could have been the US fighting off a potential (but almost futile) Olympics boycott. But that was then, and it is now, when, China is China, and the US is, well, you know... US.
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